we've kind of -- kind of been a bit of a silent partner in this case over the years because we didn't think it was going to help their cause, certainly initially, if they heard that, you know, people from -- you know, a rock musician was -- in a rock band were helping them out. that's part of what got him into trouble in the first place was, you know, listening to what some people thought was the wrong music or hard music or loud music or reading books that were, you know, not -- not of the norm. what was the beginning again? >> larry: how do you react to the fact -- >> oh, how did i feel? >> larry: you're on the outside and he's calling you the best friend he has. >> well, i -- to be honest, i told lorri, i said, well, wait until he gets out and he'll see what a -- it's hard for me to keep up as a friend. one of the reasons i'm not as good of a friend -- >> no, go ahead.